Spike in gun permits issued in Rice County in 2012 - Northfield MN: News

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Spike in gun permits issued in Rice County in 2012

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Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:00 pm | Updated: 8:41 pm, Fri Jan 11, 2013.

Citing an obvious concern from citizens about changes to gun laws, law enforcement officials say they were hit hard in 2012 with applications for permits to purchase a firearm.

And if the first week of 2013 is any indication, the interest in being able to buy, and carry, a firearm is going to continue to grow.

"The numbers don't lie," said Northfield Interim Police Chief Chuck Walerius. "We are definitely seeing more applications, much more so than in other years. I would say changes in the laws had something to do with that."

Walerius said his department saw 103 applications in 2012, up from 49 in 2011. Faribault Police saw 71 more permit to purchase applications last year than they did in 2011. The Waseca County Sheriff's Office shows the number of gun permits issued was up by 115 in 2012. In 2011 they had 220 and in 2012 they received 335.

The Northfield Police Department didn't track permits month-to-month, but at the Rice County Sheriff's Office, 58 permits were approved and handed out during December alone. Faribault police issued 35 permits to purchase that same month. Though neither Faribault nor the county tracked permit data month-by-month before 2012, officials from both say the increase compared to past Decembers was significant.

Local law enforcement officials agreed that the increase was likely at least partly attributable to people concerned about a possible federal ban on assault weapons. Walerius said that while he had not studied Northfield's permit applications in any detail, he noted that when he was in Cabela's in Owatonna before Christmas, the outdoor store was sold out of assault rifles.

"From a police perspective, the numbers in general concern me," Walerius said. "It puts more weapons out there that might fall into the hands of the wrong people."

Immediately following the Newtown massacre in which 20 school children were shot and killed by a gunman armed with an assault rifle, members of Congress began talking about an assault rife gun ban. Recently, Vice President Joe Biden has been in discussion with congressional leaders and the gun lobby about possible executive orders and/or legislation.

That doesn't sit well with Northfielder Jim Ingham, who believes more gun control would be a violation of his Constitutional rights at the very least.

"I want to have things in order if it does change, partly because of what is going on, but mostly because we have the right to keep and bear arms," said Ingham, who recently applied for a conceal and carry permit. "If it starts with assault rifles, where will it end?"

Besides, Ingham said, enacting laws that are more strict isn't the answer because criminals rarely abide by the law anyway.

"Only law-abiding citizens will obey gun laws. The criminals will not," he said. "The only thing it will do is make it harder for law-abiding citizens to enjoy guns as a form of recreation."

Permits to carry, which require a training session and approval from the county sheriff, have now more than tripled in Rice County since 2007, when just 97 were issued.

A total of 334 were issued in 2012.

"Some of the people who have come in for a permit to carry told me, 'I don't know if I'm ever going to carry it, but just in case,'" Rice County Sheriff Troy Dunn said. "They wanted it all done legally, just to be prepared."

A total of 307 permits to purchase were issued by the sheriff's office in 2012, though no data was kept in previous years to which to compare. In Waseca County, permits to carry rose by six -- 66 in 2011 and 72 in 2012.

Larry Ahlman, owner of Ahlman's gun shop in Morristown, said he saw a jump in attendance in the business's estimated 25 gun courses held in 2012. The classes range from "first shots" for people who have never fired a gun before, to advanced training for law enforcement.

While Ahlman confirmed an increase in sales for last year, he said the sales are following a trend that began when Barack Obama was elected president four years ago. He also agreed that activity increases when changes to gun laws are brought to the forefront.

"People fear the government more than anything," he said. "I think there are two factors that are tossed around a lot -- that government will disarm them and that crazy people are going to attack their families."

Although data would show that more people are buying firearms than ever before, law enforcement said those people who take the appropriate steps aren't the ones they worry about.

"If people are doing things for the right reasons and following the rules, great," Dunn said. "The people I think we have to worry about are the ones who break into homes and steal, who go about things the wrong way."

Bohlen said he hopes to see some "common sense bipartisan discussion" on gun legislation, though he believes in the Second Amendment. 

"Law abiding citizens should have that right, but they need to be secured, they need to follow the rules," said Faribault Police Chief Andy Bohlen. "There do need to be some changes to better understand people with a mental illness. You do have to disclose on the application if you've ever been committed to a mental health facility, but there are still some holes in the system."

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  • Discuss

Welcome to the discussion.

192 comments:

  • itsmeuc posted at 7:11 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    True facts, as they say, Richard, as these stories were news no matter where it was obtained. Hopefully, it was the first and will be the last "Gun Appreciation Day" since it turned out so well.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 6:04 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Gun activists designated last Saturday “Gun Appreciation Day” in an attempt to highlight their opposition to gun safety laws. The PR stunt proved to be more of an embarrassment, however, when 5 people were shot at 3 different gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day. On Friday afternoon, an Iowa gun dealer closed out the week by becoming the sixth person shot at a gun show. The man claims he was “showing off a .25 caliber pistol he thought was unloaded when he slid the action of the gun.” The gun was not unloaded, and a bullet went through his left palm.
    After this incident, police found a second loaded weapon on the wounded gun dealer’s table.

    From “Think Progress”

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 5:00 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Thanks for your perspective, Whitecollar. Got a chuckle out of that link you provided, and although that dudes perspective is highly debatable, I understand the spirit in which you posted it! The dialog regarding mental illness is being drowned-out by the noise being generated over a ban on guns--which I see as not having a snowballs chance in you-know-where of ever passing......

    Peace

    [smile]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:52 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Sportsman, the article was really a great addition to the conversation, and I am reading other articles that the same author wrote. Always great to try to get into the minds of those who offer opposing views. That way we can avoid meaningless rhetoric and maybe agree on the solutions. Take Care![smile]

     
  • unconcernedcitizen posted at 12:05 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    unconcernedcitizen Posts: 354

    sportsman.
    Right on both counts. Lengthy but worth it. I liked the article even though I got the same feeling (slight right bent) that itsmeuc mentioned. But I get that sense from a lot of things I read both left and right.

     
  • unconcernedcitizen posted at 12:04 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    unconcernedcitizen Posts: 354

    "Only in American can we not honor Mr. King with some sort of sales promotion during his holiday."
    Not true. I bought a King-sized bed on sale on MLK Day. Not joking. [smile]

     
  • whitecollar posted at 11:58 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    I read that article as well and enjoyed it. It's thoughtful and even convincing on many points.
    I enjoy guns but have never owned anything that would really qualify as the loosely defined "assault" weapons we hear so much about.
    I totally support and would vigorously defend people's rights to keep those weapons for any reason they wish so long as it's lawful and not for the purpose of maliciously harming others. Self defense often involves hurting other who would do harm to you but it is not a malicious act.
    Kids sniff glue. Solution: Lock up glue and require photo ID to purchase it.
    People make meth out of OTC drugs. Solution: Lock up many OTC drugs and treat everyone like a potential meth dealer.
    People use fireworks to do stupid things. Solution: Ban or severely restrict who gets fireworks.
    People smoke and bring on their own demise. Solution: Tax the ever living hell out of tobacco, sue for billions and spend the money on government salaries to pay people to complain about tobacco on television.
    People eat too much and become obese. Solution: Nothing yet. Cheeseburgers are always on sale somewhere.
    We keep trying to regulate things but we cannot regulate people. People do these things to other people. We try and try to secure the instruments to solve people problems. It works but only in a limited sense. We still have a drug problem in this country, we still have domestic abuse and teens binge drinking.
    I am all for gun control, actually, gun security but I still believe that we have a much deeper problem and it is evidenced by the sheer volume of behavioral problems we are experiencing than it is of things people use to create these tragedies. Sure, we definitely need to do what we can to keep guns out of the hands of people likely to do harm but that's still not going to solve the problem. You would have to be an absolute fool to not understand that we have a major mental health issue that drives all of these things.
    Why is this country going nuts? Figure that out and you could leave guns and cold medicines laying all over the streets and everyone would be perfectly safe.

     
  • whitecollar posted at 11:37 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    2y2d, you got me wondering if John Wilkes Boothe, Lee Harvey Oswald and James Earl Ray were Republicans or Democrats? I mean, even kooks have to have some sort of political leanings. Don't they?
    So, I farted around for a few minutes and came up with this:

    http://www.tobytoons.com/td/left-wing-assassins.html

    I thought it was amusing. Considering the subject at hand, it was morbidly amusing. Nonetheless, I'll take amusing in most any form.
    In any event, one human picked up a gun and killed another (or many other) human(s). No one in their right mind does this outside of obvious self defense or in the defense of others. You cannot argue that they were certainly committed to their goal.
    What do we do about mental illness? The best solution I can think of is to impeach and recall every elected official in the nation and start all over. I personally think that politics and politicians are the single most ignored cause of mental illness in the country. Just read these threads and you'll have no other option but to agree. These people are driving us all nuts.
    Musings, that's all I have tonight.

     
  • sportsman posted at 11:33 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    sportsman Posts: 64

    itsmeuc thanks for reading it and I am glad you learned something from it. I don't know if anyone has the answer to stopping the gun violence but I feel taking the guns away from the good guys will not stop it. I think it will be a long debate hopefully some good will comeout of it![smile]

     
  • whitecollar posted at 10:54 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    Welcome back 2y2d. Been awhile. I've kept busy elsewhere myself for a time. Some of these things are just the regurgitation of.... pick a topic. This has been a prolific thread. I think my word count on the word "aggressive negative emotion" is about eight on this thread and four on another. Some folks just love their LP's no matter how scratched and repetitive they get.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 11:53 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Hi Sportsman, I finally got a chance to read your article in full. Thanks for posting it. I found it interesting, and the author obviously knows a lot about his subject. I was disappointed, though, that his only answer to our problem was “more guns”. I wish he had given some insight into how to solve the problem and keep guns away from the bad guys. Rather it was a call for justifying the arming of teachers. Although subtle, it sounded like he thought Liberals, or those that are calling for gun control were the real enemy; and not so much the criminals—by his words “The media and the left would absolutely love to end the gun culture in America, because then they could finally pass all the laws they wanted.” And “The ones who are walking around with their security details of well-armed men in their well-guarded government buildings really don’t care about actually stopping mass shooters or bad guys, they care about giving themselves more power and increasing their control.” Those are just a couple of examples.
    As any Liberal can tell you, those comments completely miss the mark (pun unintended) . I did learn a lot about guns; as I now know exactly which one I would get if I wanted one. I did appreciate that education. I agree the language should be cleaned up regarding automatics vs semi-automatics, as the phrases are over-used without knowing really knowing what they really refer to in the debate. I have probably been guilty of that myself in my posting on these threads over the course of the last month or so.
    I wish the 2004 sunset of the law—the ban on semi-automatics had been attended to more carefully at the time. We would not be having such a serious difference of opinion regarding gun control now, in my opinion. I agree with the author that banning some of those little details on a gun such as the “flash diverter”, and the barrel guard protecting against burns seem silly, that is with my rudimentary knowledge of guns  . I wonder what the reasoning was there?

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 8:50 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    I had only seen this guys words in print, and have never heard him speak before, YIKES! He sure does foam at the mouth--bet Piers was covered in spittle by the time it was over. Very obnoxious guy...

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 8:46 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Welcome back to Main Street, 2young, good to see you again

    [smile]

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 7:45 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Republicans regularly demand that all welfare, food stamp and unemployment insurance recipients must be drug tested.

    How about we demand that all gun owners and purchasers must be drug tested also.

    (Then we can sit back and watch the republicans suddenly insist that drug is totally unconstitutional.)

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 5:53 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Hey 2young2die, you are right on the ball and the mark. I’ve seen the interview you mention and loved every minute of it. I think Alex Jones is the perfect spokesman for the NRA and the gun fetish crowd.

    When you throw Ted Nugent and Wayne LaPierre into the mix of assorted nuts I know you and I are on the right side. I heard that just the other day Wayne La Pierre and Barney Frank were arguing outside the Capitol when a giant rat ran out from under Sarah Palin dress and bit Barney Frank then ran away toward the Heritage Foundation. Barney hollered at the rat and said “How come you didn’t bite Wayne La Pierre’?
    The rat stopped, turned around and said “professional courtesy”.

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • 2young2die posted at 4:13 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    2young2die Posts: 398

    piers morgan vs. alex jones youtube link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg

     
  • 2young2die posted at 4:01 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    2young2die Posts: 398

    Does anyone else find it odd that granny j claims Dr. King is one of her heroes? How did he die?

    Only in American can we not honor Mr. King with some sort of sales promotion during his holiday.

     
  • 2young2die posted at 3:57 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    2young2die Posts: 398

    Mr. Olson:

    Interesting observations.

    I used to include song lyrics with some of my remarks. One such lyric, that may apply to your duels with the elderly jan, is from ian anderson of jethro tull (speaking of jethro, is gj of the beverly hillbillies?) from the thick as a brick album and is thus:

    "My words but a whisper - your deafness a shout. I may make you feel, but I can't make you think."

    suggestion - check out the Piers Morgan interview with the radio host who wants Piers Morgan deported on you-tube.

    I think I'm back from my self imposed exile on main street.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 3:48 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Love it!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:31 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    [thumbup]

     
  • 2young2die posted at 3:13 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    2young2die Posts: 398

    will the book burnings be televised in HD ?

     
  • sportsman posted at 3:00 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    sportsman Posts: 64

    Yes itsmeuc that is the correct article I know it is quite long but I think it is worth reading![beam]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:24 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Make sure you copy and paste link into your browser, do not do "search google for" when right-clicking your mouse.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 2:23 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    RO - Just for a little fun at the conservative's attempts to equate dunk driving laws with gun laws, I saw this little blurb the other day:

    The best way to stop a bad, drunk driver is a good, drunk driver.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:18 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Guest Post: An Opinion On Gun Control written by Larry Correia. This is where Sportsman's link took me.

    We do seem to be talking about different articles on the same Huckabee site. Try this link to refer to the letter I believe Sportman was referring.

    http://www.mikehuckabee.com/2013/1/an-opinion-on-gun-control is the correct link. Not sure why it would be taking us to different articles altogether.

    It is quite lengthy--that is why I have not commented on it yet. I want to read it thoroughly.

    Maybe Sportsman can clarify if this is the article he meant for us.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 12:30 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    I wonder just what does it take to penetrate the skulls of conservatives. No body, no where is proposing to take firearms way from law abiding citizens.
    Citing “Prohibition” does not enhance your argument. We all know that “complete prohibition” did not work. Most of understand that we now have reasonable rules regarding the use of alcohol. And yet people can still consume alcohol…go figure.

    I guess your argument is that because you can’t consume as much alcohol as you want, any where you want, even while driving and sell it to minors when you want that the Government took away your right to drink.

    That the same argument that if you can’t have a magazine with 100 rounds and a full auto rifle and buy guns without any identification or background check, you have lost your right to own a gun.

    By the way whoever said that the second amendment was to protect the people from a tyrannical government are full of themselves and BS. The second amendment was included because Southern States were worried that without the right to keep arms for their STATE militias they would not be able to keep their slaves in check. Some of you people need to pickup a book sometime and stop believing every thing you hear on Fox News and the modern day shills for the NRA. Which in 1934 their President Karl Frederick said “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses” Look it up, read the history of the NRA. You will see that this modern day theology of the NRA came about only after the gun manufacturers took over the organization in the 70’s.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 12:14 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Another wonderful example of our Senate minority leader, stoking the firepit for more gun violence:

    "Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) addressed supporters in a frantically toned email on Monday, warning them of a looming effort to snatch up their guns.

    "You and I are literally surrounded. The gun-grabbers in the Senate are about to launch an all-out-assault on the Second Amendment. On your rights. On your freedom," reads the opening of the email, according to The Hill.

    "[T]hey're coming for your guns," the email exhorts."

    What you don't see in this email, is the request for money toward the Re-Elect Mitch McConnell campaign fund. He is after all in a dead heat with Ashley Judd in Kentucky in the upcoming 2014 Senate race.

     
  • ksanh68 posted at 12:11 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    ksanh68 Posts: 147

    That letter is a fine example of non sequitur rambling and pretzel logic.

    "The 2nd Amendment is about protection of personal sovereignty against the tyranny of unchecked government power. I am not advocating violence against our government or any sort of rebellion."

    If we need to be armed to protect ourselves from the possible tyranny of our government. What is the purpose of those arms, if not armed resistance, rebellion or violence? Maybe just for use in photo ops to be used for anti government resistance advertisements, yah right.

    The letter writer then goes on to say: "Just as Colonial Americans would not be seen keeping cannons and bombs in their barns, we are prohibited from owning weapons of war, to include fully automatic rifles, explosives, crew-served weapons, and the like."

    Just a thought, but if this is his justification for today in America having AR-15's; the armed resistance he seems to envision we need is woefully out gunned already. So what the point without a right to have RPG's, drones, tanks, etc.?

    Dinky dau logic, if you ask me.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 12:01 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Granny - Where in the second amendment does it state this:

    "The 2nd Amendment is about protection of personal sovereignty against the tyranny of unchecked government power."

    Unless you have a different version, I can't seem to find that phrase anywhere?

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 11:53 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Wrong consider - Encouraging employees to carry weapons to the Headquarters but securing them prior to entering the facility is a "Gun Free Zone". Requiring all visitors and requiring them to secure their weapons prior to enterins is a "Gun Free Zone." This is a requirement because the last thing the NRA wants is to have to answer to the media how an individual was shot as a result of an accidental discharge of a firearm. You know what kind of firestorm would errupt if that was to occur? That is why the NRA would rather be safe than sorry.

    But your statement is confusing: "If your employees are armed, there is absolutely no reason to allow others to walk in with a weapon." What do really mean by that?

     
  • consider posted at 11:25 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    No. My answer is that adding new laws will do NOTHING to reduce gun violence. In fact, they will make us less safe. Law-abiding citizens will be less armed while criminals will be unaffected. Prohibition and our drug laws are perfect examples. Laws that a society rejects will not be followed. Laws that a segment of our society rejects will not be followed by that segment of our society. With more gun laws, the risk to law-abiding citizens increases, it does not decrease.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 10:55 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    So your answer is that because we can’t stop each and every act of gun violence, we can do nothing!

    Great Idea!!!!!!!

     
  • whitecollar posted at 10:40 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    I've seen this movie! In the prequel, he was shot multiple times, fell off a balcony on the second floor of a home and when Dr. Loomis looked over the balcony expecting to see a dead psycho killer lying on the ground.... the killer was gone! [scared]
    Seems he left Haddonfield, IL and moved to Georgia.
    The saga continues.
    We do need protect people's right to bear arms. We need to balance that right with responsible laws governing their use and ownership. That's only going to come from unemotional, practical, non-partisan analysis and planning.
    I am much less concerned about the problem than I am with the process of arriving at a solution. Typically, we wind up with half-baked, superficial, make-believe solutions designed to appease rather than solve.
    Until I actually see a group of people assembled for this purpose who are capable of and willing to accomplish that end, this is just another amusing exercise in politics so far as I'm concerned.
    Granny's avitar? I like it. I also like Richard's cartoon cat and itsmeuc's lunar faery. Somehow, they suit you guys. Well chosen I say. Ed? Well, what can I say... he sure looks special. [wink]

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 10:00 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Also found at www.mikehuckabee.com/2013/1/an-opinion-on-gun-control


    “Mr. Huckabee,
    I am very disappointed with you and the rest of the self-proclaimed "conservatives" at Fox News. Every time I hear about the 2nd Amendment, somebody brings up the topics of self-defense and hunting. You know **** (word deleted from original letter due to objection by robocensor) well that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, and it isn't even meant to protect the right of self-defense against thieves and criminals (though this is a natural right). The 2nd Amendment is about protection of personal sovereignty against the tyranny of unchecked government power. I am not advocating violence against our government or any sort of rebellion. I am simply saying that we all have the natural right to protect our liberties from those who would seek to destroy them. There is much talk about banning "assault weapons" and high-capacity magazines. Remember that any weapon, be it a knife, revolver, club, or rifle, is an "assault weapon" if it is used to hurt innocent people. However, the AR-15 and other rifles are under attack by those who wish to disarm the American public. This rifle, and other semi-autos, are the muskets of our time. They are not machine guns, as the Left would have you believe; rather, they are commonly owned guns that allow citizens to protect themselves. Just as Colonial Americans would not be seen keeping cannons and bombs in their barns, we are prohibited from owning weapons of war, to include fully automatic rifles, explosives, crew-served weapons, and the like. The AR-15, however, leaves an appropriate means of protection in the hands of the people without compromising law and order. Please stand up for the 2nd Amendment and quit letting people beat around the bush with their talk about hunting. Defend our sacred freedom by speaking frankly and directly about the subject. As a naval officer, I did not take an oath to protect our Constitution just to see it torn apart because good men fail to act.
    Very Respectfully,
    C. Andrew Mencel”

    END OF QUOTED LETTER

    I thought this was the letter to which sportsman referred.

     
  • consider posted at 9:42 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    Sparo73 - First of all, the NRA Headquarters is NOT a gun free zone. They operate just like they are encouraging schools - employees are allowed to carry weapons. If your employees are armed, there is absolutely no reason to allow others to walk in with a weapon.

    Second, if you really believe that passing more laws will prevent people from obtaining the firearms they want, then the drug war must really throw you for a loop. Maybe you'd rather go back to Prohibition and explain how well those laws worked. Laws might limit the actions of many, but certainly not those who are intent on disobeying, whether for criminal activity or for self-defense.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 9:42 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    I read the Yahoo article, Sparo73. What does a story about a guy who chased his wife with a machete, took a knife to his dog, stabbed a friend to death and then dismembered the friend’s body with a power saw have to do with the Second Amendment or gun control?
    Are you advocating machete control, knife control and power saw control?

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 9:24 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Here's another post regarding gun ownership.

    http://news.yahoo.com/swat-standoff-ga-uncovers-dismembered-body-154457005.html

    I wonder if this will get on the Huchabee web site. The article does not say if this individual had a stolen assault rifle so I am assuming that, following in the footsteps of the NRA's position that only good, qualified American citizens that complete background checks can obtain these weapons. I, then, can conclude that he did in fact pass a completed background check prior to purchasing an assault rifle. The system obviously works.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:51 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Apparently people are reading several different letters at the Huck Huck Huckabee website.
    Here is the one the link took me to….

    Mike Huckabee
    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that Friday afternoon in Loganville, Georgia, a woman was working from home while her 9-year-old twins were home from school. She heard a knock at the door, but thinking it was a salesman, she ignored it. But the knocks became more persistent. Frightened, she got the twins and they hid in a crawlspace connected to her office in the attic. From there, they heard the man break in with a crowbar and begin going ransacking the house. He eventually made his way to the attic. But when he opened the door, he got a surprise: the mom had a .38-caliber revolver. She fired six shots, hitting him in the face and neck five times. She was out of bullets, but she bluffed and told him she’d shoot again if he moved. She and her kids fled to a neighbor’s home and called the police, who captured him as he tried to flee. The story raises a lot of questions, like: what would have happened if she hadn’t been armed? And considering he was still able to flee even with five bullet wounds, what if in her fear and nervousness, she’d missed, or what if he’d had an accomplice? It kind of makes you think that maybe letting law-abiding citizens have guns that shoot more than six bullets might actually be a good idea.

    This letter has absolutely nothing to do with reasonable gun safety and she is lucky her burglar did not also have a gun. I have additional comments about this letter below. The letter is also very convenient in that it goes so far as to equate the mothers situation with the argument for large capacity magazines. While ignoring the fact that in a very close encounter the mother armed with a .38 revolver pumps six shots into this guys head and neck and still has to bluff herself out of the situation. That does not demonstrate the need for high capacity magazines, but rather better aim. You simply can’t put that many projectiles into a human head and neck that leave the shootee standing. That tells me the shooter was aiming wildly and erratically and is very lucky (again) that none of her children or other people were standing in back of the burglar or to the burglars side.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 8:10 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Granny Jan and sportsman - It was hard to swallow your link considering Mike Huckabee posted it on his website. Even going to his site will no doubtedly incur some response of defending christian values or soliciting money for his "crusade" to convert gays and lesbians to heterosexuality, but I did and read most of the letter. He really loses his whole arguement when he starts talking about this:

    " In all honesty I have no respect for anybody who believes Gun Free Zones actually work."

    The headquarters of the NRA is in Fairfax, VA and it is a "Gun Free Zone". They don't even trust their own members.

    Just plain talk, it is afterall, best!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:23 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Ed, we grew up living next to a guy like that, only he didn't go to the polls or run for office! In that way, I wish it still was the good ole days sometimes. Now if they got on there screaming about losing their privacy, they wouldn't be able to complain much. We are losing our right to privacy faster than any other right--people must think that is just peachy keen. Just ducky. Now I must sleep. zzzzzzzzzzz

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:57 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Hi Sportsman, nice to see you again. We did talk briefly in the past, and I'm glad you stopped by. We have gotten into a lot of issues during the course of our discussions here--even have gotten silly, too :) But have gotten back on par briefly--then off track--then back again. It has been fun.

    I will say the guy who wrote this is seems very knowledgeable and together on his information, and he presents it in a rational way, as opposed to other articles I have read with the same arguments. I don't like to take advice from someone foaming at the mouth, and this guy does not do that. He seems very well qualified to present this information. I am going to really take some time and study it and read it thoroughly. This is an issue we really do need to take seriously, and be able to solve. I am not up emotionally for another massacre like this last one. But it won't we won't get there without putting partisan bickering, and ideology to the side, and I wonder if the people in Washington can even do that.

    I promise to get back to you this time, sportsman. After traveling last month, I was exhausted, and never went back to the other thread we spoke on like I had planned to. So I am glad you ventured in. I need to carefully read this again, and will have more to say--maybe tomorrow. Thanks again.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:16 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    It's Obama's fault, he made me do it--him and that mind control thingy he's got going.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:13 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Yeah, and that trick I learned from Whitecollar.

    He is corrupting us, I say.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:11 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Wow, Granny Jan, you are H.O.T. ! Who wudda thunk!

    Very nice pic [beam]

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 11:56 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    So what’s your point? That a woman in Georgia was lucky she had a pistol to protect herself and her children? Good for her, no one is talking about taking her gun away from her. But for every story like that there are 10 where some family member shoots another family member.

    Like I said NOBODY is talking about taking that Georgia mothers gun away. But every time someone talks about some reasonable restrictions like magazines with a capacity of less than 100 rounds, or making some gun nut wait for a few days while a complete background check can be accomplished, the paranoid chicken little wing of the tea party coughs another story like the mother in Georgia. Then they runaround like raving lunatics screaming we want to take that mothers gun away.

    It’s the same every time…propose that perhaps a cap of 10 guns a week as a limit for purchase may be a good idea because that guy currently buying 500 guns a week isn’t buying them for himself but rather to sell anonymously on the black market. What’s the response….”Oh God, your trying to take our hunting privileges away” (at the top of their voice)

    Just suggest that private gun salesmen at gun shows should sell their guns under the same terms and conditions as a legal registered gun dealer? Well that of course equates to trashing the constitution. Because as we all know Jefferson and Monroe said “two hundred years from now people should be able to buy guns anonymously at gun shows and over that new thing they will invent called the internet”

    Honestly you gun freaks are like little children when the doctor want to put a band aid on your cut finger and you run crying to your mommy….”Help mommy the doctor is trying to cut my leg off with a chain saw”.

    You people had better man up and accept some reasonable gun safety measures while you can, or some day you may have some draconian restriction shoved down your throat.

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 11:34 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    You’re right, sportsman. That’s a great letter. Plain talk says it best. Thanks for providing the link.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 11:20 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Anyone who thinks Marilyn Chambers was/is a movie star, needs to get out of the back rows of dark 20 seat theaters.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 11:07 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    What a chuckle I got from Richard Olson's post! I didn’t know who Marilyn Chambers was, either. And I don’t recall ever before being likened to a movie star. I assure you, the photo used is of me. The date on which it was taken, however, must remain an unlisted number.

    By the way, many thanks to whitecollar for providing such clear step-by-step instructions for installing an avatar. Even a techno-challenged granny like me was able to follow them.

     
  • sportsman posted at 10:46 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    sportsman Posts: 64

    I was going to stay away from this thread because it just didn't make much sense to me half of the things you were talking about had anything to do with gun control.

    This is for itsmeuc, Mr.Olson and sparro here is a link I would like you all to read I think it was very good letter that was written. I don't know if any of you have ever been on this site before because it don't lean to the left but here is the link.
    www.mikehuckabee.com/2013/1/an-opinion-on-gun-control
    This was not written by him I hope you read it and I wait for your response.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 10:26 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Italians (running, as in shoes).
    Shoes (as in expensive Italian).
    You just can't help yourself, can you? What's next? Baby seal jokes? You evil, evil liberal you![wink]

     
  • Special Ed posted at 10:17 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Whatever happened to the good old days when kooks and paranoids spent their days locked in their own homes, armed to the teeth, talking to themselves, shades drawn and having their groceries delivered and left on the front steps?
    Now they either hang out at the voting booth, run for office or appear on these threads.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 10:15 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Not being the most cosmopolitan on the thread, I wasn't sure if you were referring to a rock star or a p.o.r.n. (a trick learned from itsmeuc) star so I had to search.... I concluded that the devil isn't in Miss Jones, The Devil is in the Details?

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 9:54 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Richard, I have facebook, so will see if I can find her....although I have heard and seen it all already anyway. I have seen some of the same sentiments all over the web. I get my news online and from various sources. I have to admit I have not heard the "Baracka Clause" term--that's a new one--but is pretty benign compared to the other stuff. Scary that these people are in our own backyard. When President Obama was first elected I feared for his safety. That is the only time I have ever been anywhere near fearful about anything political. Now with the gun-control debate and the NRA fomenting upheaval rather than letting the democratic process play out, I fear for him even more. There is no discussing anything with these people.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 9:39 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    There is nothing I hate worse than Italians running amok.

    As you can see by my posts, an edit key would be a huge asset for me! Now, I am going to go *duck* in case someone wants to throw a shoe at me, and alleges that I hate Italians!![innocent]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 9:34 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    It would depend on how I wanted to use the word, Ed, either as a verb, or adjective.

    I would use Cheeto worthy if I was running out of cheetos and had to pick and choose upon which posts I snorted a cheeto. If the Cheetos could not be replaced redily--as in the Hostess products, I would have to be very picky when and where I snorted a Cheeto and with whom. Heaven knows I already experienced that same senario with Ding Dongs. When they were gone, they were gone!

    On the other hand, Cheetoesque has quite a frenchie flair to it and adds a bit of class. It would be a lovely way to describe some of my fave posts.

    I second your proposal for Cheeto Appreciation Day. If someone comes along and raises me, it passes as law! I know--I have mixed up parliamentary procedure and poker. Might as well be the same when speaking of the school board, huh, Ed??

    They may not have censored the "C" word, but we could very well be banned for indecent laughing. In that case, we would have to high jack a thread in the FDN, talk to Jaci nice, till we got thrown out of there.

    [beam][lol][tongue]

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:00 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Does anyone know why Granny would use Marilyn Chambers as an avatar?

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:56 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Ed you made me lose another one. It won't long my whole bag will be gone.
    I think there was a song like that back in the 60's.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:15 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Just to give you an idea exactly what kind of racist pigs are applying and receiving permits for concealed carry. We have a woman in Fergus Falls she runs a computer business and her name is Ginny Saul. This is what she wrote on her Face book page last November 20th after Obama won a second term. (I don’t have anything to do with Face book so I don’t know how to get to her page, but if you do maybe you can find her)

    “Conceal and Carry Class- Check-DONE
    Apply of application at Sheriff’s Dept - Check Done

    Now wait 30 days to get approval letter then I can purchase and carry a gun. Can’t believe I now feel after 50 yrs I need to do this for my protection, but face it- too many Baracka Clause voters out there that believe what is mine is theirs, and no morals since they do NOT have God. Now to decide which gun I want to purchase. (November 20 by Ginny Saul)

    She has written other stuff about how Obama is a Nazi and how it’s just too bad if anyone feels she’s a racist, that’s just the way she feels. And now this racist pig needs a gun permit because Obama voters want to steal her stuff. Paranoid much?

    If you can’t find her ranting on Face book check out my friends web site and click on his archive tab he copied all her stuff. His name is “Chipmunk” and his site is “http://chipmunksback.tumblr.com/”

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • Special Ed posted at 7:54 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    As you can see, my italics ran amok in my last comment and that is why I liked the edit function that they so graciously removed. I can go get a permit for a gun and that's okay but they express supreme distrust in my ability to edit my own comments.
    I wonder what the newspaper would look like if they were not allowed to edit their own articles, apply spell check or retract submitted articles? [beam]

     
  • Special Ed posted at 7:51 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Cheeto worthy or Cheetoesque (to borrow from an old favorite: q)? [wink]
    I should point out: 'For the record, Richard Olson has offered no proof to back up his Cheeto allegations....'
    In response to gun appreciation day, I propose Cheeto Appreciation Day.
    Thankfully the censor Gods haven't seen fit to abolish the "C" word on this thread.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 7:32 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Like the new term! And was wondering when that comparison would be coming!

    [whistling]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 7:12 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    haha, oh my, Richard that story was cheeto-worthy.

    I was going to suggest perhaps psychological testing along the lines of what the military or law enforcement might use to screen people--on second thought--maybe not a good idea.

    Ok, so I an Ed and assume Richard would agree that before packing heat, it would be nice to be packing some common sense, judgment and certain skill set before one is issued a permit or whatever....I have been reading more and more articles about this very subject, Ed, and was thinking about posting something similar. There are currently a whopping 19 states that don't require any training--as in nada, squat, zilch, zero before either granting CCW permits or allowing legal concealed carry. Minnesota requires some training but I don't know how rigorous it is. I would like to see non-NRA members do any training btw. They have lost all credibility in my book as I wouldn't want to be taught by someone who thinks everyone and their dog should be armed. Might be a little too non-nonchalant about the whole safety thing.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 6:44 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    My last comment was supposed to be under itsmeuc's response to the whos' who and who knew what when intrathread (new term[beam]). Anyway, it wound up under Richard's Florida dude/alligator wrestler story.
    Richard, maybe you're on to something there. Florida residents could be required to wrestle an alligator for their permit. If they win, they don't get one? That could be applied to much of the SE coastal states and gulf state.
    In Minnesota, they could wrestle a school board member although some of us might take up temporary residence in Florida because at least the alligators fight fair and have are easier to identify.
    The zealousness of a gun rights advocate is only rivaled by that of your typical levy supporter and almost as logical.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 5:35 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    I was in the service with a dude from Florida who was supposed to be an alligator wrestler/rider at some roadside attraction. One day he pulled his .45 (which he wasn’t supposed to have) out and was twirling it around and showing off. When he was done he stuck in his pants belt because he had no holster.

    You guessed it…the pistol discharged taking a large chunk out of a body part we can’t mention here and started his pants on fire. He survived, but after the medi-vac chopper took him away we never saw him again. He’s probably a big shot in the NRA today. (They call him lefty although he was right handed)…I made that last part up.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 3:53 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Could a practical application test on the manual of arms be required for gun ownership? Perhaps include the requirement of purchasers to run through 'Inspection Arms' prior to buying?
    Might not be a bad idea.... if nothing else, it would make them candidates for the All-American NRA not-so-silent drill team.
    People go through driver's ed, take their road test, pass it and then go on to become yet another hazard on the road. Even with standardized testing and national competency requirements, a lot of these people will slip past whatever checks we put in place.
    Morons are everywhere, in all social planes and increasing in numbers as we speak. Remember the fellow who shot himself in the head during a gun safety class during Desert Shield? Yeah, a military "expert." No one is immune.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 2:25 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Five Injured in Accidental Shootings at Gun Shows on "Gun Appreciation Day"

    As thousands of pro-gun activists held rallies across the United States on Saturday, accidental shootings at three different guns shows illustrated the obvious: Being around lots of people carrying firearms can be a tad dangerous. The Associated Press compiles the reports from North Carolina, Indiana and Ohio.
    In Raleigh, a shotgun went off when the owner was taking it out of its case at a security checkpoint, injuring three people. In Indianapolis, a 54-year-old man appears to have accidentally shot himself in the hand as he was leaving a gun show. And in Ohio, a dealer was checking out a purchase when he pulled the trigger by accident and injured his friend. Although he had removed the magazine from the weapon, a round remained in the chamber

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 12:24 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    For the record, Richard Olson has offered no proof to back up his libelous allegations.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 10:46 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    All one has to do to understand the racial tint of your remarks is to read them. It is inescapable. While you don’t say outright…”I think Obama is a N****” you use conservative dog whistle code words to get your message across. Additionally it is obvious you just love to spread outright lies about our President even after they have been proven false.
    The fact that you pretend to not recognize your passive racism, does not mean it doesn’t exist. You are so transparent a blind person could see your motives.

    Granny, this is the last time I will directly respond to anything you ask of me or write for general consumption because you refuse to answer any question or point I make concerning your comments.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 9:00 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Richard Olson:

    The following words from your post of 9:22 pm on Saturday, January 19, 2013,

    “Taken with all the other racist remarks by Granny Jan about our President…”

    are grossly and offensively misleading. I challenge you to cite any post or posts—with time and date stamp(s)—that prove the spurious allegation that I engage in racist commentary. Direct quotes only, please. No spin. No hype. No baseless speculation about “what Granny really means.” No “if-then” scenarios that defy logic.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 11:07 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Jan:

    The video did not advertise itself to be about the Second Amendment, nor did I "purport" it to be about the Second Amendment when I posted it. I *purported* it to be as an adjunct to our wonderful celebration of "Gun Appreciation Day". I did explain how it applied to the discussion, in my view, when you asked about it. But, again, as you do many of my comments, you ignored my answer.

    Just because 'your American Muslim friends' do not wear thobes, does not mean they are uncommonly worn in the United States. They are worn in particular by very religious Muslim men, not just non-Muslims in all parts of our country. Thus, the observation that this was an American Muslim Man in the video in the video is not out of line.

    Thobes can be bought online. Anyone can get one. I could buy one if I wanted to--under $50 bucks.

    You pointed the guy out for a reason. In your world of jello, a Muslim man can only wear thobes if he is the Middle East. In reality, anyone that wants to wear one, can in this country yes even in -30 cold and snow sans sand!

    Funny how we still don't know your views on the Second Amendment out of 122 some odd posts. We only know of your repeated meme about Obama. Talk about irrelevancy to the Second Amendment.


    [wink]

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:22 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Like Bugs Bunny said “it is to laugh. Out of all the people in that video Granny Jan singles just one guy for mention. The Arab looking dude. Taken with all the other racist remarks by Granny Jan about our President and the obvious dress of this individual a reasonable person would conclude that he is a Muslim. As everyone knows Muslims are the bane of tea baggers and the extreme right has spent four years perpetuating the lie that Obama is a Muslim. Here was another opportunity for Granny Jan to hint with a few dog whistle code words “here’s Muslim with a gun and Obama’s a Muslim and he want to take our guns”.

    Now I fully expect Granny Jan to come back here all outraged and projecting, she’ll say I didn’t say those words and I’ll agree she didn’t …..she hinted them, hoping the weak minded would catch her drift.

    I admit I’m the one who first mentioned the word “Muslim”…..what did Granny want us to think? That the guy was a Methodist? The absolutely most absurd thing I’ve heard is the last two sentences about her Muslim friends. That’s a good one Granny. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha snort snort, oops there went another Cheeto.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 8:29 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    itsmeuc:

    I meant only what I said. That is, it’s curious—in my opinion—that an offensive video purported to be about the Second Amendment would include someone dressed in the traditional garb of a part of the world not governed by the Second Amendment. Of course, nothing else in the video was relevant to the Second Amendment either.

    Also, please note that the term “Muslim” was inserted by Richard Olson, not me. Mr. Olson also introduced racial remarks. My comment was about attire and geography. I have no idea why he chose to introduce religion and race into a discussion about the Second Amendment. I have no idea what motivates any of his crude disjointed commentary. And much of the time I have no idea what he’s rambling on about.

    The fact is, non-Muslim men living in the Middle East sometimes wear thobes for the sake of comfort. As far as American Muslims are concerned, I have never seen any of my American Muslim friends wearing thobes, not even when relaxing in the privacy of their homes. Not even when sharing Iftar with them.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 6:49 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Meanwhile, at the Double Shot Liquor & Guns Drive thru.....

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 5:12 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    If the gun advocates behind this year’s inaugural Gun Appreciation Day had hoped to 
    use the day’s festivities to build support for their anti-regulation platform, they are going to have to wait another year.
    Emergency personnel had to be called to the scene of the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh, North Carolina after a gun accidentally discharged and shot two people at the show’s safety check-in booth just after 1 pm. Both victims were transported to an area hospital, and the Raleigh Fire Department announced that the show would be closed for the rest of the day.

    Two similar incidents occurred at entirely separate gun shows in the Midwest, one in the Cleveland suburb of Medina, Ohio and the other at the state fairgrounds in Indianapolis, Indiana. In Ohio, the local ABC affiliatereports that one individual was brought to a hospital by EMS, and in Indiana Channel 8 WISH says that an individual shot himself in the hand while trying to reload his gun in the show parking lot. That brings the tally to 4 victims of gun violence so far at three different gun shows during the country’s first Gun Appreciation Day.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 5:00 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    What he means is that only white Christians should have guns, just as the second amendment should only apply to white Christians.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:45 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Ok, now I see what Jan was talking about. Jan, what are you reading into that? I would say 'So?' as well. Please explain.

    Must be a conspiracy in there somewhere.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 4:10 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Granny Jan said “Curiously, about forty seconds into it there’s a guy in the background wearing a thobe, the long white garment traditionally worn by men in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries”

    So?

    Oh wait, I get it now, you thought “what? a Muslim with a gun”, how paranoid can you tea baggers get. I thought you guys loved the Bill of Rights, especially the second amendment.
    Get used to it Granny, that’s the thing about rights, they apply to all Americans even American Muslims.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:22 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    If= *I*

    Think I need a new keyboard!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:19 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol @ Dude!

    So Jan, does not approve--what a surprise.

    These people humiliate themselves by even taking a video of themselves in the first place. Don't worry, I doubt anyone was permanently maimed by their foolish escapades. The worst was probably a few body aches from being gun-butted. I missed the "guy" in the background that was dressed in white--looked like a painted coke bottle to me!

    You completely miss the relevance to the 2nd Amendment discussion. These are the kind of people who are apparently obtaining gunz in this country. Yet, there are folks like yourself who are becoming completely unhinged at the thought of gun control. This video demonstrates that anyone, including those who obviously should not, have gunz in their hands.

    Yes, I am sure you have a window into my soul. And you completely know me through and through and have already condemned my blackened soul to the depths of Hades. Judge On, Jan.

    lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololoz!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:00 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Yeah, Richard, links don't work here. You have copy and paste into your browser. If find it easier to right click, highlight item, and "search for"...It's one of my pet peeves about this site--I do wish links were clickable.

    Um, ya, just ducky--peachy keen....How these people got gunz is anybody's guess.

    Everytime I think about Responsible Gun Ownerz, I think about Dick Cheney!

    Don't forget about arming school children themselves. Add them to your list...

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 1:16 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388


    IF:
    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. 
    THEN:
    Guns don’t save people, people save people. 

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 1:11 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Hey itsmeuc, I finally found the video you linked but only by pasting to my browser. If I pasted in the search box on you-tube itself it brings up a different video.
    I think it’s funny how Granny Jan said he/she is repulsed by the videos “ humiliatingly bad judgment, crude language and frequent incidences of human pain and suffering.”……that offends him, but spreading a bald face lie about the President is just ducky with him/her/whatever.

    You can bet you last dollar that everyone in that video thinks he/she would be an excellent example of the “good guy with a gun”. And more than likely has an application for a concealed carry permit assuming of course their mommy filled it out for them.

    Dude has it exactly right…“natural selection in action!!”

    I saw this on the internet. Here is how to get rid of the second amendment. (not that I want to)

    arm the ghetto
    arm undocumented workers
    arm rape victims
    arm homosexuals
    arm your manicurist
    arm sex workers
    arm every brown, black, red, and yellow face in sight
    then watch
    no one will ever again suggest
    that guns are a right.

     
  • dude posted at 12:13 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    dude Posts: 107

    LMAO natural selection in action!!

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 10:58 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    itsmeuc:

    I watched the video you recommended. I cannot recommend it to others as it features, in my opinion, repeated episodes of humiliatingly bad judgment, crude language and frequent incidences of human pain and suffering. Curiously, about forty seconds into it there’s a guy in the background wearing a thobe, the long white garment traditionally worn by men in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. What the brief film DOESN’T include, in my opinion, is any real discussion of or relationship to the second amendment.

    The video DOES, however, provide a telling glimpse into the souls of those entertained to the point of “lol” by repeated episodes of humiliatingly bad judgment, crude language and frequent incidences of human pain and suffering, in my opinion.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:20 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    If the “Bump Fire” video was what you intended it link, it doesn’t work. It brings me to an exercise video.
    It’s just easier to type in “Bump Fire”. If you meant something else….never mind.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:17 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    *by*

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:54 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol! This is a must see!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk

    Let's Commemorate Gun Appreciation Day but celebrating Responsible Gun Ownerz

    [beam]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:49 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Jan, I will say that you are persistent! [beam]

    Nobody listens to Obama anyway. You know that! He is completed ignored by the entire Right -Wing, he can't influence them one bit. The only time they listen to him is if he says something that outrages them, then it is hell to pay!

    Most of his supporters I bet don't even remember him saying what he did. I didn't even know he said it until someone confronted me with the same thing. And, I consider myself highly engaged. So of those that voted for him (roughly 51% of eligible voters out of 126 million who voted total) say 20% of them actually heard it or read about it, and that figure is probably high. Furthermore, the ones who heard it brushed it off, weren't paying attention or taking pics of him at that rally, or gawking at the rest of the crowd. So it is a very, very tiny number. Mass shootings are even more rare. The probability of Obama's statement prodding on a mass shooter are basically nil.

    The only way we will know if he influenced anyone would be to have another massacre where the shooter admits, yes, President Obama's comment made me do it. There would be no other empirical evidence to support the truth of your statement otherwise. It still stands as your opinion, and repeating it does not make it true. It just makes it your opinion!

    Now the mass shooting we had since he said that would have been Sandy Hook. That kid's mom was a survivalist, a far right-wing, Republican, and I read her son believed the same. He did not like Obama. So I don't think Obama's words had any impetus in that shooting whatsoever.

    It just isn't realistic to believe it, and there is no empiricle evidence to support it, no fact, so it is only your opinion.

    Have a great weekend!! And see ya around the threads!

    [beam]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:21 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Aw, I thought I had everyone fooled![rolleyes] You are VERY perceptive then :) That is a good trait to have.

    The first thread I ever posted on was one about cats. This guy posting-- Woodsman had me so upset, I was almost in tears and screaming at him! He liked to kill cats--anybody's cats, and he encouraged it. He was one of the most obnoxious people I had encountered online...true epitome of an @zzole. If I had never read that article, I might never have gotten interested in being here. I suppose that was what gave me away, all the screaming, hahaha!

    Yes, lots of views, here, yes, but just feel free to just drop in any time, even to just say hi! I sure would't mind! I have never really stayed on a thread this long--probably because there have been a lot of topics discussed.

    Sometimes I wish we had a real place to meet around here! To just say hey, see how everyone is, what's up...instead of issues all the time!

    Oh, Ed, you always knew I was a liberal--if you knew I was a woman, you certainly knew my political leanings! lol! I guess I don't need to guess much more about "Unca Bob--mebbe he related to my folks from 'bama.

    Thank you for all the compliments, Ed wow, hearing that tops off my evening big time. I think the same about you--right down the line, you may as well have been describing your posts! Keep fighting the good fight over there... have a good weekend, maybe see ya around!

     
  • Special Ed posted at 12:42 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    Hate to tell you itsmeuc but I concluded "woman" the day your started posting. [beam] I am shocked to learn that you are a "liberal" though! [scared]
    Gee whizawallydoo! That's frightening!
    I mean, you're articulate, rational, reasonable, well considered, consistent and fair minded. Liberals just aren't LIKE that! I know because my 'Unca Bob' frum Waco tol' me so.

    This thread already has numerous prolific observations, opinions, rebuttals and even a cheeto or two. I was going to dive in but decided not to.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 11:32 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Hey Granny, great comeback. I like the way you defeated each and every one of my points with logic and reasoned coherent responses. Man you sure told me, I really really feel chastised.
    Truthfully I’m surprised you didn’t say “La la la la, I know you are but what am I, so there”.

     
  • Punonymous posted at 11:05 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Punonymous Posts: 15

    Sure, now you're going to threaten the guy with sticks and stones! The violent tendencies of conservatives are many and obvious. They must be stopped at all costs.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 10:23 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Mr. Olson:

    Sticks and stones.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:27 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Granny Jan, do you have some personal reason to post comments that you know are a lie, or is your motive to stir hate against a Black President. You know what you posted is a lie because I addressed the issue a few days ago on these very pages. All you had to do was look it up. But you would rather create anger, resentment and division among people than tell the truth. Even Fox News eventually said that the lie you are trying to perpetuate was false.
    Shame on you, you are part of what’s wrong with this country. If you had one ounce of character or honesty you would withdraw your comment. But I’m not going to hold my breath. No wonder you comment under a false name.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 8:01 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    The destructive negative emotion of revenge is so often cited as motive for mass shootings. We have a president that recommends the destructive negative emotion of revenge as a motive for voting.

    Guns don’t motivate shootings. Destructive negative emotion motivates shootings.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 4:21 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Those are the same fruitcakes who are now peddling the idea that if the Jews had firearms they could have defeated the Nazi’s.

    Yeah sure, the French couldn’t beat the Nazi’s, the Polish people couldn’t nor could some of the Scandinavian counties. It took the combined might of the Allies to beat the Nazi’s, but these jerks theorize a few Jews could have done it if only they had firearms.

    It’s the same mentality that says that a few well armed individuals at recent mass shootings could have prevented the deaths of the victims.

    Can you imagine you’re in a dark theater when some freak with an AR-15 come through the back door firing his assault rifle when some NRA slim Jim decides to shoot the shooter, so he starts shooting but it just so happens there is another cowboy with his concealed carry pistol who sees the first two shooters and decides that they are in cahoots so he shoots at the second gun man. Now since we are safer with more guns another pistol packing dime store cowboy sees the first three shooters shooting and decides it’s his civic duty to join the fray. Keep in mind that all this is happening in a dark theater with a movie flickering on the screen and people running around screaming because they feel so safe with more guns.

    Brilliant! Just brilliant thinking. Some people will come up with any excuse to strap on a pistol to improve their manhood. Just like that sniveling coward Ted Nugent, when he had a chance to carry a weapon for his county he pooped his pants (on purpose he says) to fool the draft board into releasing him.
    Today Ted says he couldn’t go to Vietnam because he would have “Killed everybody in sight” and then he would be in trouble for all the killing. Now he’s on the board of the NRA and shooting his fat mouth off about the second amendment.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 3:30 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    WOW! The Gun Appreciation Day celebration is sponsored by a group called "American Third Position or better known as A3P. It is classified as a White Nationalist hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Nothing says take up your firearms and protect your freedoms better than the voices of a White Supremacist Group.

    After the worship service at the golden gun, I am certain you can follow Granny and consider on Saturday morning to the nearest gravel pit to site in your assault rifles and listen to the speeches of the guest of honor - Rush Limbaugh (he can be in all places at the same time according to the Republicans).

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:25 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol!

    Richard, you are absolutely correct. When I first started posting here, I did not post anything that gave any clue to my gender. I had no avatar, did not have my gender on my profile, and did not let it be known in anyway I was a woman. I was treated with way more respect, and taken way more seriously when I posted in a non-specific gender manner. I decided to let it be known I was a woman, and the manner in which my posts were received changed! I know some will say it is "all in my mind" and that sexism does not appear on these threads. It may not be blatant, but it is subtle. It can be palpitated.

    Now, I wonder after saying that, if I will be challenged as heavily as you were by basically saying some of the same things. These days, I can post something really relevant, and thought-provoking, and all I hear are *crickets*. That is why it is so refreshing to have you here.

    So, what do I know about those "V" things? I suppose nothing. What do I know about forced sexual contact? Nothing...I suppose... even though as a woman I have had to fight with my whole being against it many times in my life. What do I know about carrying a child inside me, and giving birth? And, as a single mom, I did not ever know the struggle of raising kids, (now grown, happy and successful) and making every dollar stretch by myself with no outside help. I am after all, just a girl.

    Conservative, white, hetero, rich, Christian males should have no place legislating woman's health issues--unless they have lived in the world as a woman, or can at least understand and relate to what it is like. I have always said that if men had to give birth, and were forced to give birth in the circumstance of rape, they would have no hesitation supporting abortion!

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 2:52 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Ha, I think I found that “Cheeto” you were talking about. I wonder who will be the first conservative to ask ….”so what do you know about those “V” things anyway, your just a girl”

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:37 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Whys do conservatives seem to believe that outlawing guns won't prevent violence, but outlawing abortion will prevent abortion?

    It never ceases to amaze me that the ones who complain the loudest about a woman ending a pregnancy will complain even louder if a woman requires assistance raising a child. This is hypocrisy.

    The anti-choice model:

    Force a pregnancy to term, then deport the new baby if it's an "anchor" baby, or ensure the child gets no health coverage because government-assisted health care will turn that baby into a socialist if it survives to adulthood.

    If that baby is eventually raped, we can have a whole new generation of unwanted babies born to people not in a position to care for them because rape victims won't have access to abortion, no matter how "legitimate" those rapes are, (yes, rape can be legitimate according to some law makers) and anti-reproductive choice crowd will lift no finger to help-- as they are too busy protecting some other fetus somewhere else to care about the babies living outside mom.

    They are the party of small government except when they want to shove something up a woman's privates as in forced intra-vaginal ultrasounds without a shred of medical necessity. Grow the government in that way by all means. They are willing to pay for that.

    Government better not touch my guns but a woman's body is fair game. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

    And, the GOP refuses to help living breathing people devastated by Super Storm Sandy, allowing those affected folks to just languish for two months without any government help, yet runs to get their heads all up in lady parts.

    House Republicans are not supposed to even say the word (whispering) v.a.g.i.n.a, on the House floor let alone in mixed company--even when said Republicans are legislating female body parts.

    Rep. Lisa Brown of the State Legislature of Michigan was banned for uttering the word (using my inside voice) v.a.g.i.n.a on the House floor while debating a draconian anti-abortion bill. I know! Grab the smelling salts, and scrape your jaw off the floor. It gets better--after Republicans were done rending their garments, and gnashing their teeth after having heard the word, they even suggested that women had no part in the discussion at all-- "to ensure that the proper level of maturity and civility are maintained on the House floor."

    If the Republican men are too squeamish to even utter the word v.a.g.i.n.a on the house floor, and their delicate sensitivities are so offended by even the mention of the word, maybe they should not be legislating control of, well, v.a.g.i.n.a.s.

    The Republican record includes the all-male congressional panel debating insurance coverage for contraception, 33 attempts to repeal the health reform law and all of its benefits for women, vaginal probes in Virginia, and efforts to de-fund Planned Parenthood clinics around the country. And they say the "War on Women" is just a dangling, shiny object in the sky in attempts to side track the discussion from the "real issues" which they repeatably vote against anyway--jobs bills.

    Maybe it would cure them to have each and every one of them submit to government laws that require lengthy ultrasounds for prostate exams?

    Can we do trans-urethral ultrasounds on these neanderthals before giving them their Viagra or Cialis? Which by the way is covered by Obamacare, but yet, Republicans balk at covering contraception for women.


     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:57 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    I don't have the that convenience, Mr. Z :) I agree, great discussion. I wonder if Consider can still say Richard has the inability to articulate his thoughts? Or, if anyone can still claim that intellectual substance is missing from the discussion? Great posts, Richard--I agree right down the line, we needed another great liberal voice on these threads. Thank you for posting.

     
  • MrZ posted at 12:55 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    MrZ Posts: 15

    wow, this has turned into a dittohead, V loving, peepee in the wind match, very ammusing, thank you 2 for the lovely banter, it makes for good reading....


    btw mine went 8ft, needed a lil more arch =))

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 12:13 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Since you refuse to respond to the many points I’ve made, I feel it is unnecessary for me to respond to the points you think you made.

    Even if “my side” were to concede that life begins at conception, your side of whacko’s simply move the goal post. As in Arizona where life begins two (2) weeks BEFORE conception. That’s right! Since the religious zealots in Arizona can not accurately determine the date of conception for a legal abortion, the legislator simple passed a law that says “Human life begins two weeks before conception” (never mind the fact that if they can’t determine the original date of conception how do they know when it’s two weeks before the date they don’t know?) The result is that in Arizona it is virtually impossible to get a legal abortion which is the goal of the religious zealots on the right, despite abortions being legal.

    Therefore the argument…if religious zealots can take away a woman legal right by whacko restrictions why does the same crowd demand that their rights can not have any restrictions? The answer obviously is that their rights trump all rights of anyone else. And the basis for that is that their Christian religions says they are right and unless you march in lockstep with Christian zealots you have to be wrong because they are always right. It’s the same simple republican logic that says right to work laws make unions stronger, privatizing Medicare will protect seniors, cutting taxes on the wealthy produces more revenue, making it harder for people to vote promotes democracy, and
    abstinence only education will mean fewer unplanned pregnancies.

     
  • consider posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    Richard – why do you insist on assigning beliefs or views to me? Over and over you refer to my “side,” as if I agree with everything that is proposed by a Republican. I feel sorry for anybody who believes that must be the case. I can honestly say that the Republicans have infuriated me much more than the Democrats. However, as it relates to gun control and abortion, the Republicans GENERALLY have better solutions.

    I have not “blithely dismissed” your rights. Since “pro-choice” people refuse to admit that a human life is formed at conception, I intentionally left “human” out of the discussion and referred simply to life. Since the gender of this new life is already determined, you can try to explain how we have a him or a her that is not human. In any case, the taking of all sorts of life is and ought to be protected. A pre-born baby ought to be valued more than a whale or a wolf – especially more than a pre-born whale or wolf. Yet that is not the value shown by “your side.”

    I will simplify my previous last paragraph so that you might be able to understand. More free and armed citizens cause crime and murder rates to drop. There is more crime in areas that outlaw weapons than in areas where they are allowed. The recent theatre shooting took place in a theatre that advertised itself as a gun-free area – and there were theatres closer to the shooters home.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:24 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Consider, I have to wonder if you even read what you write. Most of what you write makes no sense at all.
    For instance…”Unlike you, I will not assume that you hate those black teenagers in Chicago simply because you support something that will do nothing for them.” What? What does that mean, it sounds like you just picked some letters from the alphabet and threw them on the wall.

    Also…”Secondly, in a free country, your rights SHOULD end at the point where they harm somebody else. My right to own a gun harms nobody.” Once again you blithely dismiss my rights, which hurt no living person then pompously assert that your right to own a gun harms no one. Really? Gee I wonder who then is shooting all those people? It’s not somebody without a gun! While you personally may not have murdered anyone yet, collectively your group asserts rights not dreamt of by the founding fathers which result in thousands of murders each year. So don’t give me that crap that your rights harm no one.

    Lets talk about “new life”…Paul Ryan has co-sponsored a bill which gives “rapists” the right to sue his victim if she wants an abortion she feels necessary after her rapist got her pregnant. Your side has also introduced so-called personhood bills which make ALL abortions illegal, outlaw birth control and ban in vitro-fertilization. I guess having a baby from in vitro-fertilization is bad, but having a baby from rape is better. You want to tell me again how your sides whacko restrictions harm no one or just change the name of what they can’t do?

    While your side stands as cheerleaders for children not born, the very minute they pop out of the womb you throw them under the bus. Your side wants to do away with child care tax credits, W.I.C., preschool benefits, free vaccinations at Planned Parenthood and god forbid some poor unwed mother gets a dime in money from the government. Why is it when a poor unwed mother gets money from the government you conservatives call it welfare, but when that same government gives millions to a multi-national corporation you conservatives call it “incentive”. You give money to wealthy people to give them incentive and take it away from poor un-wed mothers to give them incentive.

    If a single mother is at home raising her children, you conservatives call her shiftless and lazy, you say she should get a job and support herself. Which if she does, you then call her a bad mother for not being at home taking care of her children. And when your side gets caught in the hypocrisy or double standard of that silly position you announce an even goofier position…she shouldn’t have gotten knocked up in the first place. This of course after you deny her birth control and family planning.

    And the basis of all this “war on women” is based on your side trying to impose your religious beliefs on others….and then you guys wonder why you lost the election.

    Go figure!

    PS…your last paragraph is not even worthy of a response other than to ask you to read the full account of the Gabby Gifford shooting, especially the part about the other guy in the crowd with a gun.

     
  • consider posted at 8:06 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    First of all, “despise” might have been too strong. Although, when you refer to others as right-wing and dittoheads I don’t believe you use them as terms of endearment.

    Secondly, in a free country, your rights SHOULD end at the point where they harm somebody else. My right to own a gun harms nobody. My right to USE a gun against another person is limited to defending myself. I do not have the freedom to kill. I also have the right to have sex with the willing partner of my choice (barring incest, etc.), but if that act results in a new life I should not have the right to kill him or her. You can call that hypocrisy if you’d like, but it simply doesn’t fit.

    I am all for restrictions on what you call “gun violence.” But once again you show your ignorance by assuming that those you disagree with don’t care about children. The new restrictions being proposed would do little or nothing to restrict gun violence. In fact, far more deaths are caused by handguns, mostly gang-related, than by assault weapons. Unlike you, I will not assume that you hate those black teenagers in Chicago simply because you support something that will do nothing for them.

    Am I laughing? No, my laughter has turned to mourning. Restricting the availability of guns and ammunition for law-abiding citizens simply gives more power to those who operate contrary to what is written in the law. In addition, while an assault weapon may not be needed in most cases, if I am fearful of being attacked by more than one person I don’t want to face them with a pistol. In the case of a school shooting, I want to be armed with a bigger weapon and more ammunition than the person who is breaking the law. A handgun may have slowed him down, but an assault weapon would have ended his life and saved the lives of countless children.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:58 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Yeah! I I can write my comment. Look out world, lmao!

    G'night Ed! Don't let the bed bug bite! We never had bed bugs but been saying that since I was a wee one :)

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 2:54 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lmao, good one! Nearly snorted a cheetoe laughing so hard! I was trying to use the V word here! I'd go comment on those threads, but don't really have a dog in that fight...Your doing a good job holding your own.

    Let's try this way v.a.g.i.n.a. See if it works.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 1:19 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    itsmeuc - Were you using the "V" word on this thread or the one about the school board...? Might be the context. I would have used the V word on the Engbrecht thread but did not wish to sound insulting to... vegans. [beam]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:39 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Richard, no apology necessary! I happens all the time, and I was not worried about it at all! I will try to re-write my comment differently. I think it was because I used the word several times...Grown-up Republican men in Congress sure don't like the word.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:32 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Fortunately for you FF, your condition can be treated under Obamacare as pre-existing.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:15 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Well between your bouts of laughter and whistling past the grave yard you could tell me who I despise.

    Also, apparently I articulated my thoughts well enough to force you to confront your desire to regulate those thing you dislike while demanding protection for the rights you hold dear. In polite circles we call that hypocrisy. I hope I’ve articulated that well enough. In case I’ve failed, let me put it more bluntly….you “consider” are a hypocrite.

    You arrogantly dismiss others rights as minor by defining a Supreme Court decision as some mere technicality and labeling others whom you do not, and could not know as murderers. In typical right wing fashion you want to force your religious beliefs upon others. But recoil in horror when reasonable people think that some restrictions on gun violence are in order. Like so many conservatives you only care about children before they are born, but are prepared to toss them to the vicissitudes of life in the first grade at the hands of some fruitcake with an assault weapon who apparently society must tolerate because he can not be inconvenienced by such monumental restrictions such as a waiting period for a complete background check or some limitation on the number of bullets he can cram in his assault rifle.

    Still laughing?

     
  • slOwatonnan posted at 8:23 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    slOwatonnan Posts: 247

    Of course you'd be hard pressed to prove your point via citation from within this thread wouldn't you? Oh well. Keep thinking in terms of a false equivalency and all will be well. :)

     
  • consider posted at 8:03 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    Richard, you can't even articulate your own thoughts. It's quite humorous to see how you know so much about those you despise. But keep posting - I've heard that laughter is great medicine, and you are certainly providing plenty of that.

     
  • fizzlefazzle posted at 8:00 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    fizzlefazzle Posts: 22

    I just read through this comment section. Wow. I will never understand people who think the one political party can do no wrong while the other is evil incarnate. Bunch of creeps.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 7:09 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    I have no idea how it snuck through. Sometimes I like to just throw it in the mix knowing it scares the bejabbers out of conservatives who think it’s just another liberal plot to undermine the social fabric of our great nation.

    Many conservatives won’t admit it even exists, but they know they want/need to regulate it. It may have something to do with the conservative psyche where they can’t admit their dear sainted mother had sex which produced such a disappointment as themselves. I think some tea baggers think they came about as a result of immaculate conception. (which proves abstinence isn’t 100% effective as conservatives like to say.)

    By the way, kindly accept my apology for referring to you as “he and him” in a previous post.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 5:35 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Richard, how are you getting your posts to go through using the "V word"? I would like to comment, and used the V word several times in it, but am being censored. Guess I will just have to refer to it as the V word in my comment!!

    Ironically, my comment had to do with the censoring, and silencing of a congresswoman who uttered the word on the House floor!

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 3:43 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Why don't you ask some women who aren't dittoheads.

     
  • consider posted at 3:33 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    Richard - your previous post mentioned marriage and vaginas. How could my response to your post regarding only those two issues show a lack of understanding regarding voters, workers, and the environment?

    Rather than going off on what you feel you can infer from a two sentence post, why not respond to what was written? In what way is "the right wing" regulating vaginas - other than when they try to protect innocent life from being ended?

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 2:29 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Consider……are you kidding me? Where have you been for the past year. I haven’t the time nor the inclination to post a comment that would be longer than “War and Peace” just to bring you up to date.

    Your comment shows a bewildering lack of awareness of current events and even the most basic understanding of issues effecting women, voters, workers and the environment.

     
  • consider posted at 12:54 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    consider Posts: 369

    You have a MINOR point in bringing up marriage - but the difference is that those laws or amendments pushed by conservatives would not limit the freedom of anyone to act in whatever way they wanted - only in what it was called. Not sure what you mean by regulating vaginas. Are you equating the regulation of personal actions to the proposed regulations on killing an unborn baby?

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:41 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    The right wing says we can’t pass gun laws because it treads on their liberty. Wow, tell me more about how we must regulate marriage and vaginas.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:10 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Ya sure, NOW you come sneaking in!!

    Glad you had a great day and evening!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:06 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol :)

     
  • whitecollar posted at 10:58 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    Sure, I leave to run a few errands and come back to this:
    Implied (er, inferred.... uh, in furred?) correlations between Oscar Wilde and weiner stands on Hennepin, Rush Limbaugh and books and itsmeuc up to her usual racially motivated and hateful comments about rednecks!
    I guess I'm in the minority because I found the entire thread entertaining (and informative) as all git out. Good to see you again Thundar.
    Tonight was perfect for a relaxing drive down from the cities. This thread capped off a great evening. Thanks all.
    To Richard: You're going to fit in with this bunch very, very well. Welcome abroad.. or a broad.. or aboard. Dang! See you later, I'm off to dictionary dot com.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 7:29 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Thanks Thundar, much appreciated.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 7:22 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Jan, I know exactly what you said and meant about Obama and his inciting aggression and violence. You also claimed I incite racial conflict.
    What is the correlation there? What do I and the President have in common that disgusts you?

    It does not matter where the word ethnicity falls in the definition of minority. What's your point? Do you want to argue about what the definition of "is* is, too?

    I don't argue with myself but I am done arguing with you. This is way off topic, and I am bored.

    Peace Out

    [sleeping]

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 7:13 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    The level of reading comprehension in this country by the right never ceases to amaze me. But I guess it shouldn’t surprise me. If you hate science, logic and reason it follows that you may disdain reading beyond the level required to read a menu at a wiener stand on Hennepin Avenue.

    Here is a fact, President Obama did not (you know like in never) urge people to vote for revenge, or to take revenge. He said “Voting is the best revenge”. Now unless you are a stump jumping, ridge running, redneck Neanderthal from Alabama you understood exactly what he meant.

    Just is case there are any readers from Alabama here who want to feel outraged, I’ll explain it. President Obama was urging young people with grievances (perceived or not) that it was better for them to vote for change rather then try to achieve change by force or violence…that redress (revenge) was best achieved by voting.

    I suspect the President was paraphrasing Oscar Wilde when Wilde said “The best revenge is living well”.
    But I wouldn’t expect tea baggers or the scholars at Fox News to have any knowledge of Oscar Wilde either, that would have required actually reading a book. Yeah I know, “Duh, what does we need books fer, if we need ta know anything, Rush will tell us”.

     
  • Thundar posted at 6:57 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Thundar Posts: 721

    I'm not going to wade into the intent, but I will do a drive by posting and say....according to dictionary.com since we are picking up our dictionary....yields....

    1. the smaller part or number; a number, part, or amount forming less than half of the whole.

    2. a smaller party or group opposed to a majority, as in voting or other action.

    3. a group differing, especially in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population: legislation aimed at providing equal rights for minorities.

    4. a member of such a group.

    5. the state or period of being under the legal age of full responsibility.

    More than 1 defintion, but again, not taking sides....just pointing out multiple definitions.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    itsmeuc:

    First of all, just to keep things straight, what I mentioned was that Obama openly urged people to “vote for revenge.” Revenge is a negative, aggressive and often violent emotion. Revenge is often cited as a motivation for mass shootings. We have a president that stirs up negative, aggressive and often violent emotions. Those emotions are what motivate mass shooters. Guns are not a motivator.

    Now, take a look at the definition of “minority” that you provided. Take a look at the word which precedes “race” in that definition. It’s “ethnicity.” Though you do it with much bluster, in my opinion you are arguing against only yourself.

    I hope you have a good evening, too. And an even better tomorrow.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:06 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Jan, this is your post:

    Granny Jan posted at 8:23 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.
    Granny Jan Posts: 182

    Writing in ethnic dialect can be tricky, itsmeuc. Which minority or minorities you are attempting to ridicule?

    Have a fantastic evening!
    [beam]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:04 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol, I am Polka Dotted, Mr Z :)

    Thanks for your kind words, they are appreciated. Glad you can appreciate the lighter side of life by having a laugh here now and then. It's fun to see the humor and not take things so seriously all the time. I agree with you on the close minded folks here. I can't relate to them at all.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:59 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Au contraire, mon ami...

    Definition of MINORITY from the Wikipaedia Encyclopidia:

    A minority group is a sociological category within a demographic. Rather than a relational "social group", as the term would indicate, the term refers to a category that is differentiated and defined by the social majority, that is, those who hold the majority of positions of social power in a society. The differentiation can be based on one or more observable human characteristics, including, for example, ethnicity, RACE, gender, wealth or sexual orientation. Usage of the term is applied to various situations and civilizations within history, despite its popular mis-association with a numerical, statistical minority. In the social sciences, the term "minority" is used to refer to categories of persons who hold few positions of social power.

    Now, come again, Jan? Who used the term MINORITY? You did.

    Now, who has the tendency to rile up other posters? Look no further than this thread, Jan, and face yourself. Race is the furthest thing on my mind when posting here. Apparently it is you who is so obviously hung up on the subject.

    I have friends of every size, shape, color, ethnicity, sex, and income groups. I befriend the homeless. I give freely of my time and money I have worked with the same mix of people, I married outside my "ethnic group", and, I grew up with people of all colors. My children are "mixed". Now tell me again how I try to incite racial conflict.

    You are the one that told me Obama was trying to incite violence by encouraging people to vote. You are looking at the world through jello. That is how clearly you see.

    I wonder what YOU are trying to engineer by your posts? Care to share what YOU gain from it? Talk about lack of intellectual substance.

    Now, run along, dear, you are missing Fox News.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 2:45 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    itsmeuc:

    You are the one that, for whatever reason, brought up skin color. I did not introduce the subject. In my opinion, you often try to rile up racial conflict in threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with race. I wonder why that is. I wonder what could be gained by such a tactic.

     
  • MrZ posted at 2:02 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    MrZ Posts: 15

    I'm guessing your Polka Dotted Itsmeuc, since I'm unable to *read* your color of skin by a post. Alot of what you write I totally agree with.

    You and few other posters always give me a good laugh by what you say sometimes. Ppl take things and feel they can twist stuff to their prospective and refuse to see the actual *dialect* in it. Its not their lack of English SKills, I'd go with more along the lines of the Close Minded Folks who will only beleive what they wanna beleive, and then try to twist things to make them feel smarter and more superior then others. But thats what most do when they can hide behind a computer screen.

     
  • MrZ posted at 1:00 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    MrZ Posts: 15

    You can push for gun bans all you wish and want. If these crazy idiots want to do harm to someone they will find a way. Might as well ask for a ban on alot of household products that can use be used to make bombs, any *Crazy idiot* can google how to make bombs.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:58 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Thanks, Mr. O ! You are Right On again. My imaginary, little, admittedly over-the-top soliloquy was honestly and truly written with no race or minority in mind. Didn't even occur to me. The "dialect" is made up--it doesn't exist. I wanted to target the NRA more than anything else...

    On top of that, if one wanted to truly parse out "race" from what I wrote, I did say I was related to these made-up people. I suppose they could be the same color as I am, whatever color that is.

    What color do you infer that I am, Granny??

    Some not only are unable to grasp written English, they are unable to grasp sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek, or satire as well. It is the suspicious mistrustful mind that always seeks out the nefarious, and finds conspiracy in the world around them.

     
  • slOwatonnan posted at 12:30 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    slOwatonnan Posts: 247

    The Nuge is a stooge.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 11:39 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Gee Granny Jan, why would you find it necessary to “infer” anything from itsmeuc’s comment unless you want to ascribe something to his comment he did not intend, nor write.

    I understood precisely what “group” he was talking about, “rednecks” as if that wasn’t clear enough he spelled it out for the ill-read in his second sentence of his second paragraph.

    Moreover, what difference does it make? You seem unable to grasp written English regardless the “dialect”.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 11:37 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    LOL, you are amusing, Granny.

    You have already played the game, by asking the question in the first place!

    Go gather up some of that intellectual substance you are apparently missing. Whitecollar said he found some in the dumBster at Al's.

    FYI--Everyone KNOWS what you infer by using the word MINORITY.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 11:03 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Okay, itsmeuc. I will INFER from your reply that you willingly admit to attempting to publicly ridicule an ethnic minority. Quite frankly, trying to guess the target of someone else’s bigoted ridicule isn’t a game I care to play.

    FYI, MINORITY is a numerical term, not a racial term.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 10:46 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    By the way, Granny, funny you would assume I was poking fun at a MINORITY. You must equate guns, the NRA, and obsessional love of weapons with skin color.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 10:20 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Mine, too. Guess that mystery is solved.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 10:12 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Use your imagination, Granny. You don't answer my questions, I don't answer yours.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:20 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Thanks whitecollar, the reason I couldn’t find the update page was because I was already signed in. So I signed in again and found the account setting page and submitted my avatar. Thank again

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • whitecollar posted at 9:02 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    Richard - Above the article you will see "Welcome back, Richard Olson Logout|My Dashboard"
    Click on My dashboard
    Click on – account settings
    Click on – edit profile
    Click on – Browse (next to the new avatar file box).
    Select a suitably flattering photo from your computer files.
    Click on – Open
    Click on – Update Profile.
    Once done, the editor or whoever is assigned that grueling task will review the photo, determine that it is NOT a compromising pic of a politician in a men’s room at the airport and your new avatar will post soon afterward.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 8:23 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Writing in ethnic dialect can be tricky, itsmeuc. Which minority or minorities you are attempting to ridicule?

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 8:16 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Can anyone tell me how to upload my avatar? I asked the editor in an email a few days ago but as of yet I have received no response.

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • whitecollar posted at 7:53 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    Also, I may have figured out where the missing intellectual substance went. There's a load of it in the dumbster behind Al's.
    Some of it is sure to be mine.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 1:04 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    what a hoot this turned into! I am seriously lmao![tongue][beam][cool][lol][tongue_smile][innocent]

    couple of glasses of wine before reading all this didn't hurt either!! lol

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:57 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    lol, omg, lmao! Spot on Smack down, Snap! and BULLSEYE!

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 12:37 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Oh SHOOT, it’s gun appreciation day! (Unless there is a massacre) I almost forgot. And, here I had planned on doing my shopping early! Oh well, no worries. I ama knownzt to be a fast shopper—I can grab up a few gunz and a 18-pac in 20 minutes tops, and will still have plenty o’ time to make it to my Auntie Mary Sue’s house for BBQ Chick-Fil-A ! Um,um, good! She’sa having all her inebriated Redneck folks up frum dauwn south, and dey are so much fun! dey'll prolly bring plenty of semi-automatics, big gunz, little gunz, pretty ones, and ugly ones to practice with on each other, or elsedey’all will prolly try to hunt down one o’ those gun-grabbing commie stooges to shoot up first, and hang later. Or vice versa, they are so crazy and unpredictable! No telling who dey will decide ta off. Funny thing though dey all look so much a like, and most have harelips it’s like they is inbred or sumpthin. For sure dey’ll wanna get the chance of rubbing that big golden butt right along side Granny Jan. there aint’ no golden statues like that by Uncle Joe’s mobeel home in Alabama.

    WC come join us if you can! The redneck is already rubbing off on me! Plus chewin that spittin tebaccy like a pro! Lookin forward to telling those NRA folks they is doin a bang up job for those gun manufactures gettin all those guns sold an all. Now thats one organized gang-banging group who can really scare those liberal commies inta letting guns flow like milk n honey to anybody who wants them! Aww, shucks, NRA, thanks for the special day yer givin us!!

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 10:49 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    I bet a good place to hold the gun appreciation day party would be the local grade school. The NRA could give the kids a little bullet key chain and a photo of Ted Nugent to inspire them to be somebody when (and if) they grow up.

    Hey does anyone remember when Blacks wanted to carry guns in the sixties to protect themselves from the police?

    The NRA supported Ronald Reagan signing the 1967 Mulford Act that restricted people carrying guns.

     
  • whitecollar posted at 10:46 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    whitecollar Posts: 620

    We're having a simple family get together, building apple canons from our empty beer cans and firing ball bearings from wrist rockets at each other until someone puts an eye out and we are all sent to our rooms. Other than this small soiree I have no special plans. itsmeuc, any plans?

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 10:07 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Mr. O - I commend you on your grasp of Granny and her commentaries. You are, as you say, smack on.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 9:31 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    I understand that January 19 has been designated “Gun Appreciation Day.” Will there be any local observances or celebrations?

     
  • slOwatonnan posted at 8:03 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    slOwatonnan Posts: 247

    SNAP!!!!!!!

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 6:48 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Granny Jan, I’ve only been here a short time but it doesn’t take more than a cursory perusal of your past comments to myself and others to see through your dodge to make some weak minded fellow commenter doubt his/her intellectual capacity to reduce his/her thoughts to writing.

    I’m not weak minded nor do I ever doubt myself. Additionally, your inability to grasp my comments are not my concern. However, on the off chance that I have misjudged you and your curious motive…..you have but to inform me as such and I will endeavor to comment with a vocabulary more common in tea party circles. Such as “hey yous guys gots any Skoal redie cut?”

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 6:17 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Granny, do you have a problem grasping the intellectual substance of most posts here, or, just those you don't agree with?

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 5:54 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Mr. Olson:

    Thank you for your service, sir.

    I’m still not clear on the intellectual substance of the point you are trying to make.
    Could you explain it?

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 5:32 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    I would agree, and said mostly the same thing albeit not as directly as you did. No one will be taking your freedoms away--unless you own your own stock pile of AR 15 and magazines. It is yet to be seen how that gets accomplished. If it runs through Congress, it will never pass--for reasons I stated above, and then some. If I owned a stockpile of semi-automatics, I would not be worried. There may be some loopholes closed in background checks at gun shows, and making guns administratively harder to obtain. Most responsible gun owners are on board with that. There is no reason not to be.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 5:21 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    I offered no premise of the sort. Every time I state on these threads something along the lines of how radical and wigged out the GOP has become, and that their hatred of the opposition goes beyond the norm, along comes someone like you, bringing Bush into the picture. It is so predictable.

    Your opinion has been noted, Thanks.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:32 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Mr. Olson, thank you for your service in that gawd-awful war, and to use a colloquialism of the time, I say Right On, and couldn't agree more with your comments.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 2:15 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Ofsilence….My analogy is smack on point because we are talking about Guns. The proof that it is on point is that it made you as an apologist for the NRA so uncomfortable you tried to deflect attention from the ridiculous positions of the NRA to making union members and Black people scape goats for your lack of an answer.

    And if you want to talk about “groups defying reality” (the very heart and soul of the NRA) that’s a debate I’m willing to engage.

    And by the way, I’m a gun owner. I own a Henry Golden Boy 22lr, a Colt Scout Buntline and a H&R .410 single shot.

    Additionally, in three tours in Vietnam I carried an M-16 with a 20 round magazine loaded to 18 rounds and I did so against an enemy (?) far more clever than any Minnesota deer which apparently have become so clever and evasive 100 rounds are needed to bring it’s bullet riddled body to the table.


    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • Ofsilence posted at 2:03 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Ofsilence Posts: 388

    When did the culture change?

    I would say its a combination of things. The first thing is the garbage culture of entertainment. Take a look at the BET station and who its intended audience is and what the content of the material they show on that station is. Then look at where the most gun violence occurs (75% of gun violence is caused by gang bangers and the drug war). Its politically incorrect to say so but THERE'S a direct link there needs to be addressed!

    I also think there's a SEVERE disconnect with the new generation of kids understanding that violent video games/movies/etc. is nothing more than fantasy. I think kids are largely being desensitized at an early stage of life that makes it harder for them to have empathy or understand the consequences of what happens when you actually shoot someone in real life vs. pushing the "x" button on your playstation controller during Medal of Honor.

    There's also the responsibility factor with parents and society. We live in a society to where failure is obsessively avoided. If your in last place, you get a trophy. If your in first place, you get a trophy. If you punch a girl, well thats not your fault....its society's fault. Etc. etc. Kids are raised to take no responsibility. We are teaching kids that all you have to do is "show up" and you will get paid big bucks while you produce nothing and live in your parents basement. We call this "progress."

    There is no accountability in society. But thats a whole different rant.

    But I think what Ive said so far are some great starting points as to the culture change. I played tons of video games growing up, watched violent movies, my relatives owned guns, and I was picked on in school......but I never thought of shooting up my school. Ive heard these same comments from other adults around my age (27-35). Never did I think of shooting the school bully or blowing up the school. This is something a couple generations after my generation grabbed onto. And its really disturbing.

    But.....I dont think its right to take away my freedoms because parents dont want to do their jobs.

     
  • Ofsilence posted at 1:51 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Ofsilence Posts: 388

    So the premise of "itsmeuc"'s post is that we're supposed to ignore how fanatical the democrat party was during the Bush years? Its just the GOP that have acted as roadblocks.

    Just ask a lefty about Bush and their reaction is priceless......hence the term "Bush Derangement Syndrome". Spare me this "it's all the GOP's fault" nonsense. Both parties are to blame for where we are.

    But to be fair, there are some GOPer's that do suffer from "Obama Derangement Syndrome"..........

    But the difference between how Obama and the GOP get along vs. how democrats and Bush got along goes like this: when Bush wanted something passed, he bribed democrats with offers they couldnt refuse so democrats went along with it. Obama on the other hand, thinks that by bashing his opposition constantly with arguments even the basic person can debunk - that somehow that will equal success. It's amatuer hour in the white house! Bush was an idiot and a reckless fool, but at least he knew how to get stuff done. All Obama has to do is throw the GOP a bone and they will go along.

    Oh, it might also help if Obama stopped bashing them obsessively since you know he needs them to pass anything in congress. He's not very observant and his strategy in the long term will implode.

     
  • Ofsilence posted at 1:51 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Ofsilence Posts: 388

    And if AFL-CIO were in charge of tobacco companies, the answer to lung cancer would be more cigarettes.

    Your point is baseless because these kinds of groups (NRA, AFL-CIO) are single issue special interest groups not so much rooted in facts, reality, or the common good.....but for themselves and their egos.

     
  • Ofsilence posted at 1:37 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Ofsilence Posts: 388

    Nobody is going to care about who the NRA supports. This is like saying that local politicians were going to be ousted because they voted for or against the Vikings stadium. Or that politicians were goign to be voted for or against because of Obamacare. Etc. etc. etc. By the time 2014 rolls around, there will much larger issues on the table and this will be pushed into the background. This is not an "absolute" issue with most voters. And most voters are not single issue voters either.

     
  • Ofsilence posted at 1:34 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Ofsilence Posts: 388

    You're referencing deep political ties with special interest groups. It would be like this:

    Question......How many NAACP members does it take to change a light bulb?

    Answer: More money!

    or

    Question.....How many public sector union members does it take to change a light bulb

    Answer: More money!

    Your analogy is way off base and skews more towards obsessive compulsive sheep syndrome where groups defy reality and logic for the sake of following a political party or a special interest regardless of facts. There's tons of these groups out there. Your post does nothing to further the debate.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 9:49 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    Here is what I mean Granny Jan…..

    Question…How many NRA leaders does it take to change a light bulb?

    Answer…More guns!

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 8:58 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Mr Olson:

    Your “if-then” comparison of the NRA and the tobacco industry does a good job at stirring emotion with politically charged talking point buzz words, but are you able to explain exactly what you mean by it?

     
  • someguy posted at 8:11 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    someguy Posts: 181

    The NRA is not the only pro-2A organization -- just the most well known and the most political. I'm not a member and have no desire to join. I can support their firearm education and training programs, but not the political BS they're constantly spouting. I'm not sure their political arm has any motive other than trying to get more money from their members.

    There are other organizations who are pro-2A and actually get stuff done.

    SAF: Second Amendment Foundation: http://www.saf.org/
    The SAF are the folks who are actually arguing in court and winning cases. Recognize McDonald v. Chicago? That's SAF.

    GOCRA: Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance: http://www.gocra-mn.org/
    These are the folks who got Minnesota's Personal Protection Act (Permit to carry law) written and passed.

    There are others which I'm not very familiar with. You can easily find them via the google.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 7:05 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Nobody or any organization needs to protect one's right to bear arms. It's in the constitution. The NRA is the only organization that allows people to access assault weapons to continue killing American citizens from school children on up. I would not want to be a politician in the upcoming 2014 elections who receives the NRA's endorsement.

     
  • Factsjack posted at 5:42 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Factsjack Posts: 150

    The NRA is the only organization that protects one's right to bear arms. Please donate graciously as you see by the posts below their are many that want to take your rights away.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 3:32 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Thanks, Ed. I have thought a lot about the gun control issue over the last month. And, I am now resigned to the fact that, even though I would like to see certain guns banned, very little will be accomplished by doing so. There are too many out there, now more than ever after Sandy Hook. The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back in. I think what it will come down to is behaviour modification--reaching children at an early age that show problems, and teaching our children what is right--taking parenting seriously. I agree... Good kids come from good families. Sure, not all family situations are perfect. But we need to teach our kids resilience, and how to pick themselves up and carry on with a productive life. We need to teach them how to ask for help when they need it, and always let them know that there are safe people to go to, ones that care, yup, it comes back to taking personal responsibility for ones life--and not only becoming gainfully employed or keeping a roof over their heads, but taking care of themselves on the inside as well.
    I was trying to think back in time, trying to pinpoint where our culture changed, and why. What spurred us on to become the gun culture that is the USA of today? When I was a kid, I don't remember gun violence at all. The first, and very worst National Tragedy brought by gun violence that I can remember was when JFK was assassinated. Then it was RFK, MLK, and all we saw on TV during dinner time was coverage of the Vietnam War--constant and unceasing, right there on our TV's--wars, guns, violence everywhere, unrest, upheaval...somewhere along the line some of us lost our sensitivity to guns and violence, guns and killing became so cool in our media-- it is our culture, it is us. You are right again, it will take several generations to change it. But that is only if we care to put the effort in. Young men and women need to be taught parenting skills as well. It's like we have to start all over again.
    Yeah, that meth, you can tell by a mug shot if the perp uses it or not. I like that your posts are non-political, Ed. I noticed that a long time ago. You have a unique way of presenting your ideas. You had a stellar comment on the fbo thread--the one Whitecollar called your e-couch. Now that was well-said.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 12:16 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784

    If the government was considering a ban on cigarettes, the tobacco companies would be able to pay off their settlement debts in one week. It's not the companies, it's the customers.

     
  • Special Ed posted at 12:14 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Special Ed Posts: 784


    Well said.
    I like the personal responsibility bit. LOL Great observation. I agree that maintaining control over your own behavior is the first step in gaining control over your destiny and the furtherance of our growth/evolution as a people.
    However, I think that gun control in any fashion is not going to yield the results that so many are eagerly pursuing.
    Everything the government has outlawed or banned is readily available, for a price, on almost any street corner in America. Our answer to that result? Hire more cops.
    Even the cops know that 'control' of anything is costly, reactive and ineffective in the big picture.
    That's why they created programs like D.A.R.E.
    Even the cops know it's the most effective (long term) means of accomplishing a goal. Behavior modification or whatever you want to call it is the most effective and least expensive way to achieve the results we all hope for.
    In a nut shell, it's not going to happen over night. It took a generation to get to this point and it will take a generation to change it.
    Ask any cop if they think that a ban on any sort of weapon is truly going to have immediate and lasting effects...
    I have to provide a DNA sample, a thumbprint, drivers license, social security card, three references and a Visa card to get something for my runny nose because people are using my Dimetap to make crazy chemicals that they can rub into their bellies, snort up their noses and smoke in toilet paper tubes to get their jollies. Has anyone read even ONE report on a decrease in our meth problems?
    Yeah, me neither.
    Start at the source. Not at the result. NNothing political in my position, just plain old fashioned reality, something most people skip over in their eager pursuit of a quick fix.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 11:15 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    [thumbup]

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 10:58 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    The only revolutionary and reactionary emotion you need to worry about is that from the extreme right--stirred up, how? By whatever it is that bugs them so deeply about this President. It is the GOP who is serially bugged by and continues to "harass" this President through it's inaction and deep disregard of this country and the American People. They say NO to every little thing. This congress will go down in history as the worst ever for getting ANYTHING done. It is my strong opinion that revolution will come from the far right, if it does come to this country--and not the left.

    If you are feeling aggressive negative emotion it is coming from within yourself, Granny Jan, and not from some external source. You don't need to be scared of Barack Obama. You need to be very afraid of the kooks within your own party that are gun owners--the ones who would not hesitate to practice their Second Amendment remedies against this President or even fellow Republicans they don't agree with. They are pissed, and they hate our government when one of their own is not in the seat of power. And, they hate this President deeply--deeper than I can remember any hate for a President. Ya know, those Ted Nugents, and Alex Jones' types out there. They would think nothing of starting a revolution. There are sitting congressmen and women who think this way as well.

    Did you see how irate the Right was when Gov. Christie and President Obama actually got stuff done when they worked together on Hurricane Sandy? Those two actually seemed fond of each other--perish the thought; there were even embraces between the two. Christie caught more than a little flack from the Right about it.

    Blaming Barack Obama for all the serious aggressive negative emotions in this country is laughable. Where would you place "personal responsibility" your side constantly yips about when it comes to personally controlling negative emotion? Yeah, blame it on someone else. The devil is making them do it....only it's not the devil, it is Barack Obama that makes them act this way. Please. It's hypocritical. Get my gist yet? It was Boehner who told Harry Reid to go f*k himself. My, my, that sure is responsibly handling ones emotion isn't it?

    As long as the GOP keeps setting themselves up as victims, it isn't going to change. They do it to themselves, and they don't even recognize it. I have yet to feel envy or any of that negative emotion that you claim Obama incites. I have never felt it, never will either.

    I have no problem ever understanding Sparo's comments. Is English not your primary language, Granny?

    President Obama stopped a crowd from booing Mitt Romney on the campaign trail. That is when he told them to stop, and to get their revenge by VOTING. That is how problems are solved here--through consensus, through voting. Reading into that what you are, and blaming gun violence on his statements is very warped thinking, and I remain unconvinced--sorry.

     
  • Richard Olson posted at 10:13 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Richard Olson Posts: 388

    If the NRA were in charge of the Tobacco companies, the answer to lung cancer would be more cigarettes.

    Richard Olson
    Fergus Falls

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 8:44 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    As usual Sparo73, I have no idea what you are talking about. Please don’t bother trying to clarify.

    And itsmeuc, Barack Obama’s attempts to rile up aggressive negative emotion are not limited to vengeance. The president ceaselessly tries to pit poor against rich by stirring up envy.

    Aggressive negative emotion causes gun violence. Barack Obama serially incites aggressive negative emotions.

     
  • itsmeuc posted at 4:25 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    itsmeuc Posts: 620

    Yeah, by voting.

    A vote is not one of those "inanimate objects" that can generally be turning into a murder weapon.

    Where was your false sense of outrage last fall when a certain Republican Congressional candidate expressed a desire to use her "Second Amendment remedies" regarding her colleagues across the aisle? Where was your righteous indignation when the same candidate referred to her opponent as a "domestic terrorist"?

    Now that is REAL political intimidation and a real threat of violence--as the phrase "Second Amendment remedies" implies.

    This provincial and reactionary line of thinking didn't exactly jettison the GOP into the White House, now did it? Nor, will it ever.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is GOP.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 4:17 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Granny - Considering your statements below, I will be more careful when walking across the street. After all, those that resent the re-election of our President might act on their negative aggressive emotions and try to run me down. I guess you won't be inviting me over for a steak dinner either.

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 3:30 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Sparo73:

    Glad to oblige. Maybe bullet points (yes, pun intended) are the way to go.

    --Mass shootings are often attributed to the shooter acting upon negative aggressive emotion, usually revenge.
    --We are living in a country ruled by Barack Obama, a man who openly solicited acting upon negative aggressive emotion when he instructed his loyal followers to “vote for revenge.”
    --A person taking action based on negative aggressive emotion is capable of turning a wide range of inanimate objects into murder weapons.

    Guns are not our real problem. Our real problem is that the president of our country encourages citizens to act on negative aggressive emotion.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 1:42 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    Granny - I read your comment a few times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. Could you reword it?

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 1:02 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    slOwatonnan:

    I read through your comment a few times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. Could you reword it?

     
  • slOwatonnan posted at 12:47 pm on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    slOwatonnan Posts: 247

    So if a person has a steak knife, a big rock and a car and those are equally deadly, why does anyone need a gun?

     
  • Granny Jan posted at 11:49 am on Mon, Jan 14, 2013.

    Granny Jan Posts: 353

    Sparo73

    You ask how to “stop the crazy, paranoid people that already have guns.” I assume that when you question how to “stop” them you mean how to “prevent them from murdering with guns.”

    Do you fret over crazy, paranoid people that already have automobiles and how to prevent them from murdering by road rage?

    Do you worry about crazy, paranoid people that already have steak knives and how to prevent them from murdering by stabbing?

    Are you concerned about crazy, paranoid people that already have big rocks and how to prevent them from murdering by bludgeoning?

    Guns do not cause murder by shooting.
    Automobiles do not cause murder by road rage.
    Steak knives do not cause murder by stabbing.
    Big rocks do not cause murder by bludgeoning.

    A more pertinent question to ponder is how often murder is motivated by aggressive negative emotion. President Obama urged his millions of followers to “vote for revenge.” He openly encouraged them to act on aggressive negative emotion. Now, there’s something to fear.

     
  • hfnorth posted at 11:52 am on Sun, Jan 13, 2013.

    hfnorth Posts: 18

    Even normal people with no mental issues have their guns taken by crazies among us to go on killing sprees. The Newton massacre is not an isolated event where the owner of legally bought guns were taken from the owner (the mom in the Newtown case) and used to kill the owner of the guns and then went on to commit mass murder with the weapons taken from the household of the owner.

    We had that very incident in Minnesota in 2005 in the Red Lake Reservation massacre. The lad's grandfather was the Chief of Police on that reservation, and his guns were taken from the grandfather and the kid murdered him with those weapons before heading to school to kill more people. Below is the Wikipedia account of that massacre in 2005.

    The Red Lake massacre was an incident of spree killing that occurred in two places on the Ojibwe Red Lake reservation in Red Lake, Minnesota. On the morning of March 21, 2005, 16-year-old Jeffrey Weise (Ojibwe) killed his grandfather and his companion. Taking his grandfather's police weapons and vest, Weise drove his police vehicle to Red Lake Senior High School, where he had been a student some months before.

    He shot and killed seven people at the school, beginning with an unarmed security guard at the entrance, and wounded five others. The dead included a teacher and four students. Weise exchanged gunfire with police who quickly arrived at the school; after being wounded, he committed suicide in a vacant classroom.

     
  • Sparo73 posted at 11:19 am on Sun, Jan 13, 2013.

    Sparo73 Posts: 1135

    My question is how do you stop the crazy, paranoid people that already have guns. Judging from the people we have seen on the news lately (Alex Jones and James Yeager) it appears the background checks that have been completed and continue to be done are unable to weed out the crazy, paranoid people from getting guns. If you want something to fear, I give you those two gun nuts.

     
  • hfnorth posted at 9:23 am on Sat, Jan 12, 2013.

    hfnorth Posts: 18

    Also, the permit to carry is not a "conceal and carry" permit in Minnesota. We have a "carry" law". You can carry a gun openly or concealed with that permit, your choice if you obtain the carry permit. You may not carry a gun into any private business or church where the owners post signs saying they are not welcome. There are also many other venues where you may not carry a firearm into that are enumerated by statute.

     
  • hfnorth posted at 8:51 am on Sat, Jan 12, 2013.

    hfnorth Posts: 18

    There are several omissions of factual details in this article that lead to false assumptions by unenlightened readers.

    The article starts out with a photograph of a large inventory of rifles and shotguns for sale at a gun store. That implies that a permit is needed to buy a shotgun or a rifle. No permit is required to by 'long guns'; only hand guns require a permit to purchase them from a firearms dealer.

    The article also seems to conflate two aspects of getting a permit for handguns. One gets a permit to buy a hand gun, from your local police department. That takes about 10 days to get a background check, and then that permit is given to you free of charge by the police department. It is valid for one year from the date it was issued, and there is no limit to the number of guns one can buy over that year before that permit expires.

    A 'carry permit' is not issued by the police, but by the sheriff. It is not free; it costs $100. You are not required to have a carry permit if you do not intend to carry a handgun in public. But if you do, you also must have a certified training course that also has a cost to you; typically about another $100 from private, certified trainers.

    Lastly, Minnesota does not have a "conceal and carry" law; we have a "carry law". With that permit, you can carry a handgun (where not prohibited) either openly or concealed....the carry permit holder's choice on how he/she displays or conceals the weapon.

     

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